MOL THEOLOGICAL ISSUES
While I am not a professional theologian or teacher, I did study it as a Minor in University and on my own time. And this is one of the reasons I have not totally bought in to the teachings of Miracle of Love. What follows may seem a bit wandering, but the essential problem I have is the idea of two Self Realized Masters and a guy who became God. But then what does that mean?
Technically the story of David Swanson isn’t that he became God. The story is that David Swanson wanted to serve God so much that he allowed his being to be taken over by Gourasana, The Golden One, The Father. So he didn’t become a God-Man. How true any of that is I personally don’t know as he had died by the time I showed up. But that is how it was presented to me - calling Gourasana is asking for Gods assistance. It isn’t as one question and answer tape put it “asking some farmer from Iowa” for guidance. (No insult to farmers or Iowa intended)
As I have strong Christian roots I was immediately suspicious of this, and the Self Realized Master thing. One of the central teachings, if not THE CENTRAL TEACHING, is that men can not be God. In the Orthodox Churches they hold that one can surrender your “personality” to the point that you join, become, the Godhead, but that is different from BEING God. If anything I would say that MOL training is designed closer to this than anything else. If you have read through this site, and the Anti MOL sites, there is a strong emphasis on tearing down your personality and supposedly making you a slave of MOL. I suggest you read The Being of Conversation from this site to understand this more. The people who say MOL was trying to tear down their personality are correct. The reason is your personality is a made up set of beliefs based on protecting you and your fears. When that is threatened, you will feel like you are being abused until you let go of it.
But back to this Man God thing. One theory on why God tossed Adam and Eve out of the Garden is because they ate of the fruit of the Knowledge of Good and Evil and he was pissed that they defy Him or that they challenged his Godness, which separated us from God. Another theory is that God removed us so that we would not eat of the Tree of Eternal Life, which would mean we would for all eternity be separated from God. So it was actually a way to assure we could have our new awareness but also have a way to get back should we want to. The Jews were given The Law to worship and represent God on Earth. Then in the Christian system God became one particular man to pay an atonement for the separation (sin) so that if we accepted that man as the atonement we could return to God. This is a simple presentation I admit but I only have a page here, not a thousand page book.
There is of course controversy about this. Many assert the story of Jesus is simply a rehash of the story of the Egyptian god Horus and his mother and chopped up father, dressed up through the Babylonians, hashed around by the Greeks and subsumed by Rome so that when Constantine the Roman Emperor became Christian, he also Romanized Christianity and this story was stuck on the Biblical Jesus. And there are equally intense counter arguments that the story in the New Testament is in fact very individual (I suggest you look up both sides of this argument).
There is of course the influx of many thoughts in the 60’s from various places, but the common chant was “Do What Thou Wilt” as it was your will as an individual that mattered, (and it is debatable if you actually are an individual) and that you could evolve and eventually ascend into a God. This is a lot like Mormonism, where God was once a man, and why a man needs so many wives to bare children so that there will be those supporting your Godness heaven as you evolve. As you can see that is not in alignment with the standard “There is only One God” assertion.
Another story of course is this is a bunch of crap and there is no God, or gods, and we are all a bunch of self absorbed bags of liquid playing host to millions of germs, viruses and what not’s, all the time thinking the universe (Unified Song) is all bout us until we die pointlessly and rot in a hole. And that makes us a rich dead god.
Like many groups, MOL asserts that Truth was lost in all this. This is common enough assertion in history (the 60’s, the reformation and counter reformation, the Islamic invasion of India and the religious acts there, the changing of a Moon God into the Supreme God). So MOL says that Gourasana brought in a path to Truth back. The Father, brought it back to us. And that we can call out to Him for his assistance.
When he died many ex and Anti MOL people said Kalindi was cashing in on people’s desires to hear some truth and healing in this world. Also that the meditation is actually stolen from some one they worked with. I have read a lot of people on the Internet who say they paid royally for this and got nothing. I am not sure if that is a statement about them or Kalindi. Oddly enough, I didn’t pay for any of the classes, received a couple personal letters from Kalindi, went through an intense emotional upheaval around them, was always welcomed to meditation, was told if I did not accept Gourasana as Lord that was ok because that belief in Gourasana was another to let go of sometime and was keeping me in my illusion. The point was for me to seek and find. Ultimately I had an awakening experience where that deeper part of me did awake. The main thing was faith and trust and letting go of my defense system so God could lead me. I was never allowed “in” yet was one who did what lead to it. My taking it on as my job and not waiting for direction seemed to help. I listened to Kalindi, but I didn’t grovel at her word.
I never had their training so all these stories of mental abuse, watching your thoughts, writing it all down, I never paid for that. Granted I never asked to (and you have to ask to be in it) but I grew up in a military family, am a trained musician and bookkeeper, so to me it was instilling “ordered thought” - not in the sense of you accept orders, but you learn to think in an ordered way so you can see your internal patterns and inter relationships of your thought process. As this is a broadly used technique of monasteries and mental therapy to see what keeps you tied to your story it isn’t an unusual thing. My thing was I felt unwanted because I wasn’t “in”, but that is the story of my life, feeling unwanted. How much people’s accusations is based on their feeling I don’t know, I just know stuff I blamed them for was really my internal story I needed to wake up from.
But back to this God man Self realized master thing. Besides letters from Kalindi I only interacted a few times with the one title The Lady. Sounds honorific doesn’t it. I was told by MOL that when David was changing Gourasana couldn’t remember her name though they were close, so G would ask “where’s the lady?” And that’s how she got her name. Really honorific. She eventually realized she wasn’t Gayle and this deeper being woke up, thus realizing who she really was, Self Realized. Some in MOL hold her as a living Saint, though they also use their relationship to her to support their self importance so that may be why. Personally my interactions with her were along the line of “Hi Lady, how you doin’?” “Good Doug, how are you?” One time she walked by me and and I started crying, when she left I stopped. Not sure what that was as I wasn’t upset about anything.
I have trouble with the God and Master thing. It doesn’t fit in my understanding of life. I am told to have no other God besides God. I suppose it could also be asserted there is something witchy going on here to control and abuse me. Like “Hi Lady” :”Hi Doug.” I don’t believe I am going to ascend into God Head, but they don’t teach that. They just hold that we are spiritual beings that have been separated from God for a long time, and they offer a path back to God. Is Gourasana God? I am iffy. I had the dramatic change that if anything made me more humble, open and loving. But I had experiences of God before at my mom’s suicide that predate my being around MOL. For me it is hard to equate my change with Gourasana or Kalindi. Their talks could be they are conduits, or stand in’s and my letters from Kallindi tell me to go to God, not Kalindi, and so I did. In that, I am fine theologically. And as she is dead yet the mission continues says something. It is about our desire to know God that is the thrust of MOL, not Gourasana and Kalindi, or the Lady.
God, God alone.
Technically the story of David Swanson isn’t that he became God. The story is that David Swanson wanted to serve God so much that he allowed his being to be taken over by Gourasana, The Golden One, The Father. So he didn’t become a God-
As I have strong Christian roots I was immediately suspicious of this, and the Self Realized Master thing. One of the central teachings, if not THE CENTRAL TEACHING, is that men can not be God. In the Orthodox Churches they hold that one can surrender your “personality” to the point that you join, become, the Godhead, but that is different from BEING God. If anything I would say that MOL training is designed closer to this than anything else. If you have read through this site, and the Anti MOL sites, there is a strong emphasis on tearing down your personality and supposedly making you a slave of MOL. I suggest you read The Being of Conversation from this site to understand this more. The people who say MOL was trying to tear down their personality are correct. The reason is your personality is a made up set of beliefs based on protecting you and your fears. When that is threatened, you will feel like you are being abused until you let go of it.
But back to this Man God thing. One theory on why God tossed Adam and Eve out of the Garden is because they ate of the fruit of the Knowledge of Good and Evil and he was pissed that they defy Him or that they challenged his Godness, which separated us from God. Another theory is that God removed us so that we would not eat of the Tree of Eternal Life, which would mean we would for all eternity be separated from God. So it was actually a way to assure we could have our new awareness but also have a way to get back should we want to. The Jews were given The Law to worship and represent God on Earth. Then in the Christian system God became one particular man to pay an atonement for the separation (sin) so that if we accepted that man as the atonement we could return to God. This is a simple presentation I admit but I only have a page here, not a thousand page book.
There is of course controversy about this. Many assert the story of Jesus is simply a rehash of the story of the Egyptian god Horus and his mother and chopped up father, dressed up through the Babylonians, hashed around by the Greeks and subsumed by Rome so that when Constantine the Roman Emperor became Christian, he also Romanized Christianity and this story was stuck on the Biblical Jesus. And there are equally intense counter arguments that the story in the New Testament is in fact very individual (I suggest you look up both sides of this argument).
There is of course the influx of many thoughts in the 60’s from various places, but the common chant was “Do What Thou Wilt” as it was your will as an individual that mattered, (and it is debatable if you actually are an individual) and that you could evolve and eventually ascend into a God. This is a lot like Mormonism, where God was once a man, and why a man needs so many wives to bare children so that there will be those supporting your Godness heaven as you evolve. As you can see that is not in alignment with the standard “There is only One God” assertion.
Another story of course is this is a bunch of crap and there is no God, or gods, and we are all a bunch of self absorbed bags of liquid playing host to millions of germs, viruses and what not’s, all the time thinking the universe (Unified Song) is all bout us until we die pointlessly and rot in a hole. And that makes us a rich dead god.
Like many groups, MOL asserts that Truth was lost in all this. This is common enough assertion in history (the 60’s, the reformation and counter reformation, the Islamic invasion of India and the religious acts there, the changing of a Moon God into the Supreme God). So MOL says that Gourasana brought in a path to Truth back. The Father, brought it back to us. And that we can call out to Him for his assistance.
When he died many ex and Anti MOL people said Kalindi was cashing in on people’s desires to hear some truth and healing in this world. Also that the meditation is actually stolen from some one they worked with. I have read a lot of people on the Internet who say they paid royally for this and got nothing. I am not sure if that is a statement about them or Kalindi. Oddly enough, I didn’t pay for any of the classes, received a couple personal letters from Kalindi, went through an intense emotional upheaval around them, was always welcomed to meditation, was told if I did not accept Gourasana as Lord that was ok because that belief in Gourasana was another to let go of sometime and was keeping me in my illusion. The point was for me to seek and find. Ultimately I had an awakening experience where that deeper part of me did awake. The main thing was faith and trust and letting go of my defense system so God could lead me. I was never allowed “in” yet was one who did what lead to it. My taking it on as my job and not waiting for direction seemed to help. I listened to Kalindi, but I didn’t grovel at her word.
I never had their training so all these stories of mental abuse, watching your thoughts, writing it all down, I never paid for that. Granted I never asked to (and you have to ask to be in it) but I grew up in a military family, am a trained musician and bookkeeper, so to me it was instilling “ordered thought” -
But back to this God man Self realized master thing. Besides letters from Kalindi I only interacted a few times with the one title The Lady. Sounds honorific doesn’t it. I was told by MOL that when David was changing Gourasana couldn’t remember her name though they were close, so G would ask “where’s the lady?” And that’s how she got her name. Really honorific. She eventually realized she wasn’t Gayle and this deeper being woke up, thus realizing who she really was, Self Realized. Some in MOL hold her as a living Saint, though they also use their relationship to her to support their self importance so that may be why. Personally my interactions with her were along the line of “Hi Lady, how you doin’?” “Good Doug, how are you?” One time she walked by me and and I started crying, when she left I stopped. Not sure what that was as I wasn’t upset about anything.
I have trouble with the God and Master thing. It doesn’t fit in my understanding of life. I am told to have no other God besides God. I suppose it could also be asserted there is something witchy going on here to control and abuse me. Like “Hi Lady” :”Hi Doug.” I don’t believe I am going to ascend into God Head, but they don’t teach that. They just hold that we are spiritual beings that have been separated from God for a long time, and they offer a path back to God. Is Gourasana God? I am iffy. I had the dramatic change that if anything made me more humble, open and loving. But I had experiences of God before at my mom’s suicide that predate my being around MOL. For me it is hard to equate my change with Gourasana or Kalindi. Their talks could be they are conduits, or stand in’s and my letters from Kallindi tell me to go to God, not Kalindi, and so I did. In that, I am fine theologically. And as she is dead yet the mission continues says something. It is about our desire to know God that is the thrust of MOL, not Gourasana and Kalindi, or the Lady.
God, God alone.